Not the OP, but I am one of the guys behind SA. First of all, thank you for the nice emails and the gmail recommendation (we are answering emails and hope to fix this ASAP). Bobby and I deployed this Saturday afternoon and told 3 people, so this caught us a bit by surprise. Apologies if we reply late to folks.

I must note that both Bobby and I agree that we are very fortunate to work in an industry like tech. The reason we started this site, was because we wanted to do 2 things:

1. Pay it forward - when we closed our companies, people who heard about our troubles, some non-friends helped us out. We wanted to pay back the community which gave us so much.

2. Start small - Bobby and I know precious little about the world, but this is one area where we thought we could actually help.

Thanks once more for the support, and if you would like to be part of the folks of willing to listen to others, hit us up. @mexitlan and @bomatson.

I am torn. On the one hand, running a startup is a very stressful experience even when things go relatively well. And they almost never do, so it's usually plain hell. It's great to have somewhere to turn to even if it's just to vent. On the other hand, I can't help but think that self-pity is getting a bit out of hand in our community lately. Startups aren't a sickness (unlike alcoholism for example). Starting one is a choice we are all making fully aware that failure is the expected outcome. Rather than writing and upvoting stories about how bad we have it, maybe we should be seeking a different outlook that embraces the fact that those "terrible" events are just part of our job. Much like patients dying is a part of doctor's job (which you have to admit is a lot worse than your startup dying).

"Startups aren't a sickness (unlike alcoholism for example). Starting one is a choice we are all making fully aware that failure is the expected outcome."

I really don't think this is the case. Yes, people give lip service to that concept, but no one thinks they will fail, and investors don't think their investments will fail. Yes, they may know statistics, but no one would explicitly start something with the expected outcome of wasting months/years of their life and boatloads of money.

It does seem to me that 'startup culture' is another avenue for some people with addictive tendencies to express addictions. TechCrunch is startup porn, and people get addicted to the stories it peddles.

That's a good test to evaluate startups. How honest are the founders on their expected failure rate? If you're not a person they need to be lying to (i.e. not a potential/actual employee, investor, customer, journalist, etc), will they tell you that their realistic probability for success is very low?

If they can't do this, that's a red flag. Their irrationality will injure people in a relationship with them. They may disrespect others. Optimism is vital, but so is groundedness.

Everyone is a potential employee, investor, customer or journalist.

I agree, you have to dislodge them out of that mindset, so they don't see you that way. You're there to help, which means honesty and seriousness. Otherwise you get the businessman bullshit for public consumption.

Having interests in common (outside business) helps.

You know, my professional network is partly based on me listening to people angry enough at their startups (which they didn't found) that they're starting their own. :)

I listen to them like I've wanted to be listened to, offer validation if they seem to want it. ("Yeah, that level of 'insanity' is completely normal, I've seen it. Fear of financial doom changes people, brings out the worst in them. You've clearly gone out of your way change things, and they just insult you, so you don't owe them. And their strategy sounds fucked to me too.")

Then I ask my network to help them at trouble-points. Worried your investor's pulling out because your great CTO's legally tied up for a couple months and can only work nights? I'm emailing people that night, and we're meeting that insightful contractor together tomorrow. (And my network is pretty small, but it's increasingly getting get the job done.)

And I'll remember that you know an effective lawyer, and will probably want to find good people with domain experience in X in a few months... There are just so many open connections left hanging in the universe, and it takes so little effort to nudge them together.

So basically, sympathy helps everyone. I don't care if people dismiss complex internal forces as "self-pity." I don't buy into that hyperindividualism that we just need to tough it out without help.

> "sometimes, a coffee can mean the world."

It's true--I can definitely still remember small but sincere acts of kindness that I've received from friends or acquaintances over the years. Seriously, the $8 it costs to buy some overpriced coffee and the value of a half hour of your time are repaid many times over by the gratitude the other person feels and the good you'll have done for their life.

$8 I hope that's for two people. $8 is obscene for an overpriced coffee.

Also, if you're in San Francisco and ever want to grab a coffee and just chat with someone going down the same tough road, I'm happy to meet up. No pretenses, no bullshit, just real talk. You can also hit me up on IRC/Twitter: @dpg

thank you

op, you're using Gmail to send emails to new users. Bad idea. Google will catch on soon and ban you. I'd switch to another provider asap.

Not OP, but curious. Please elaborate? Does Google not like if it is used as a SMTP service, by startups?

Also, any suggestions for mail providers?

For those cases, https://mandrillapp.com/ is good. It's fast to setup and free for less than 12 000 emails. It's my go to email provider for all side projects (do not forget to set DKIM and SPF though, otherwise your emails will be marked as being sent via mandrill in gmail and a few email softwares)

They say 500 emails a day and you are blocked, but I personaly remember to be locked after 100 automated emails or something.

What they don't like are spammers and this is going to trip their spam blocking mechanisms pretty quickly.

Best way I've found is to use your own mailserver or alternatively to use something like Sendgrid.

I think what is happening in the US right now is a wide sum of money but a shortage of good ideas.. (or there are so many projects that good ideas are hidden in the middle of confusion)

And i think part to blame, is a cultural aspect.. it looks to me that nobody want to work in a normal job these days.. so even when you need the talent for your startup.. or he will be working in a big company, or will be launching its own startup.. common guys, its madness..

For example when i see cases and protfolios here in Brazil, theres not that much of projects being backed up by investors.. but the one that does, are actually pretty good projects.. with more distinct ideas..

i fear that because of the cultural aspect of entrepreneurship a lot of people that shoudnt be starting a company, are jumping itself into the jungle.. so when the hard times hit theres no emotional spring to make the things workout in another way.. (and this emotional aspect is one of the most important things.. you need something to push you up.. no matter what)

I would prefer to get someone's ear before my startup fails, not after. Sadly, most of my friends aren't into startups so I have few choices. Ideally, I would have a circle of say three other founders who serve as advisors to each other, but unlike typical advisors they would be peers rather than mentors.

I would call them co-dvisors.

I thought this was going to be a modern fuckedcompany replacement. Have to admit, I was little disappointed.

It's a good point. I wonder why fuckedcompany hasn't been re-created.

Are there any sites around now like a modern fuckedcompany? The current startup world is definitely missing one of those. I guess we can look forward to that new HBO comedy, Silicon Valley from Mike Judge.

The closest that I am aware of is TechCrunch's deadpool tag (http://techcrunch.com/tag/deadpool/).

It's really nice to see entrepreneurs caring enough about other entrepreneurs failed endeavors to offer a helping hand. It's common for an entrepreneur to feel alone. We're a rare breed and sometimes hard to understand by others who have never experienced owning a business or building a startup.

I myself have started and owned 4 different businesses in the last 10 years, from the age of 18 to now being 28. Each lasting anywhere from 2-3 years, 2 of which I failed, the 3rd which I sold and the 4th which I still currently own.

Every failed endeavor was a pierce in the heart and a devastating experience. Every failed endeavor required some downtime in order to evaluate what went wrong and in order to rebuilding my confidence. Through it all I can now boast in my failures. They've refined my ego, they've turned reckless ambition into fine tuned ambition. I've learned more from my failures than I have learned from my successes.

I feel that I now carry a protective shield containing knowledge and experience which help me through not just my business endeavors but as well as my life endeavors. Our Ego's play a big role in how we feel/react when things go right or wrong. It's common that an entrepreneur wants to project success at all times, and there is nothing wrong with that, you should, but it's the way you project it that could be faulty. It's common to see entrepreneurs "fake it until they make it". I also see some entrepreneurs personalities made up of a mix of condescending demeanor's and know it all attitudes. You don't have to always be right. You should always be humble enough to accept critique, to constantly learn. Your happiness should be based on the fact that you are constantly learning and conducting, not how far away you are from a multi-million dollar exit or your companies profitability. Don't get me wrong, that is the main purpose of your companies existence, but it shouldn't be yours. Obviously a company is in the business of making money and should conduct its decision making based on those goals but the best businesses/products/services created are from those who are genuinely interested in what they're building. Money cannot buy passion, but passion can buy money.

Don't let anger be the motive. You're not out to prove others wrong, you're not up against the world. It's easy for entrepreneurs to end up with a chip on their shoulder as being an entrepreneur is being a part of a rare breed that is not always understood well by others. The more you share your ideas with individuals who don't understand business, the more you open doors to the non-believers, who then are perceived as "haters". This all ends up being a waste of time and energy. The less refined your ego is, the more devastating the hit will be. Stay humble, stay modest and work like no other. Your work should come effortlessly. Office hours should feel like gaming hours. It's fun...all of it. The obstacles, the profits, the challenges, the levels...it's all a game. If your time spent doesn't feel anything close to that then perhaps you should reevaluate what it is that you're doing and why. Being an entrepreneur is a lifestyle, if it's not your style, then it's not your style. Regardless of the potential money made you'll never be happy if it's a life you're not interested in living and happiness should be the ultimate goal above all else.

-Paul Hanna

Great post! Welcome to HN!

Thanks Scott, glad to be here :)

It helps to talk with someone who went through a similar experience. Of course there's other situation when things are stressful, and having someone to listen and talk helps but don't underestimate the value of a listener who has been there and can really relate to what's happening...

So I don't think it's about status, I think it's just that they have a limited amount of time and first try to help the people that they are likely to be the most helpful to.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Startups Anonymous. I think it's a great idea and I wished I'd had that a few months ago...

You're right gommm - our reason for starting this was to build a resource for fellow entrepreneurs to talk about serious issues.

The only person who can help an entrepreneur out of the hole is one who has been there him/herself. NO ONE ELSE

We are all human after all

How about we join forces bobby?We are both trying to help people, you more on the business side/me also taking care of the more personal side.I believe we can help more people this way.Email in the profile.In any case, good to see others help too.

There are plenty of non-specific resources for stressed people. These non-specific resources would probably prefer dealing with people whose issues are not due to loss of their privileged status. And this is no different from other resources that are specific to less "privileged" circumstances. . .alcoholism, drug addiction, rape, abuse, etc.

brilliant idea :) and a well-written introductory text.

I think that it's great for everyone (even those who currently don't need it) to know that you are there and willing to talk.

like it