Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
Introduction to Legion: life in the Roman army (britishmuseum.org)
94 points by diodorus on Dec 10, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 22 comments


Work insanely hard from 20 to 45, retire with citizenship and land. 50% chance of survival. Seems like a very decent deal.


Flavius Josephus writes in the History of the Jewish War against the Romans - an important source for the Roman army - that the first cohort of every legion was twice the size of other cohorts, because it included the veterans, i.e. those who had served 16 years at least.

The following calculation is either simplistic or robust, depending on your view. And I am aware that there are simplifying assumptions, like the one that the rate of attrition did not depend on the service age of the soldier. There are reasons for that even. Younger soldiers might have fallen prey to infections because they encountered them the first time. Older soldiers were possibly tougher in that respect. Young soldiers took two years to learn to fight like a legionary. Old soldiers may have balanced their ageing bodies (a decade or more of gruelling service) with their experience. And yes, not all veterans would be incorporated into the first cohort, because they had higher echelon jobs in their respective cohort. But then, the good ones (long lasting ones?) would have been members of the first cohort in the first place because it was supposed to be elite. So bear with me.

Josephus gives us that a Roman legion could be divided in eleven roughly even sized parts, with the veterans forming one of these eleven parts. Assuming a constant rate of attrition (see above), this means that about 8% of a legion were lost each year for a variety of reasons other than retirement, 92% made it. If we assume twenty years of service, 0.92^20 gives ~ 0.188, so roughly one fifth of the legionaries made it to retirement.

If the same attrition rate applied to auxiliaries - twenty five years of service -, then about one in eight auxiliaries made it. And finally, the Pretorian guard, where the assumption of the same rate may be a stretch: sixteen years of service mean that one in four enjoyed the fruits of his post-military life.


The ones who got land would go on to work that land since it was often their only source of income. Maybe it was more comfortable than being in the army, but it wasn’t the sort of retirement people enjoy these days.


Did their children inherit it? If so, that may have been an important lever for leaving your children better off than you were.


By the time they reach end of their suty, they had enough money to buy slave od even two, they didnt work on this land on their own - this depends on specific epoch though


Source? I didn't think slaves were that cheap.


They didn't have slaves to do the labor for them?


Rich people did, but they weren't legionaries


Yeah, but you have to still work the land and survive off of what it gives you. It’s not a comfortable retirement. Cops today on the other hand have it really good, they work for 20 years and then they get a pension for the rest of their lives. You can essentially be retired by 38 and outside of some rough urban areas cops don’t have to work very hard at all.


Life expectancy was probably in the late 30s to early 40s during this time so you’re basically working for the rest of your life.


I can't find a good link, but I think that the average is dragged down significantly by infant death and that a life expectancy of 40 doesn't mean that you should expect to die at 40 if you've already made it to adulthood.


This is a fable. Many people reached old age in the empire and even the middle ages. A low "Life expectancy" doesnt mean people didnt grow old. It just means that many people die prematurely of (now) preventable things.

Death of the mother in childbirth ( 1 in 10) Death as a child because of unsafe surroundings Death as a child because of childlabour Death because of infectious wounds Death because of plagues and sickness Death because of random violence Death because of war Death by famine Death by accidents like fire in the house, occupational hazzard or hunting. Or the sinking of a ship.

All these things lower Life expectancy. But with luck and a good physique many of them could be avoided.


> This is a fable.

No, it's a myth, or even better, a common misconception. A fable is a morality story.


It's closer to a misleading truth or a fallacy. Life expectancy really was that low, but it was driven by child mortality, so knowing the mean life expectancy doesn't give an accurate picture of life expectancy upon joining the army in one's late teens.


To be argumentative, perhaps Romans living to 40 is a common misconception because it is a morality story about the superiority of modern humans


Many of the wealthy did. Not so many of the proles.


Some of the Roman legions were extremely long lived (Ship of Theseus and all - the military tend to nurture their histories)[1]. The X Fretensis, for example existed for more then 400 years [2].

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_legions

[2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legio_X_Fretensis


Just as a fun comparison the oldest still existing regiment in the British Army is the Coldstream Guards, formed 1650. So not far off 400 years.


Wikipedia says it’s the Royal Artillery Company from 1537. The Yeoman of the Guard is older, but not a full regiment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honourable_Artillery_Company

Also, interesting or amusingly, the Coldstream Guards are the oldest regular army regiment, but originally it was raised by the roundheads in the civil war and fought the monarchy. Now it’s in the household division and used for royal protection.


A touch more amusingly:

In the order of precedence of the Foot Guards of the Household Division the Coldstream Guards are second after the Grenadier Guards. The latter's predecessor was founded in 1656 for the then still exiled Charles II.

The Coldstream Guards motto is Nulli Secundus - Second to None.


The thing that irritates me most is the Roman legions are numbered, but not unique even when active for the same time periods.


> Cavalrymen ... had the chance to participate in spectacular displays wearing special face-mask helmets, sometimes referred to as cavalry parade helmets.

It must have been a good show [1], something for the bored young females of the town to gossip and fantasize about

1: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/242350023682857307/




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: