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Rivian's vans make so much more sense than Tesla semi - smaller vehicle, travel predictable routes, can be changed with existing infrastructure, and reduced cost of fuel leads to savings. So does reduced maintenance.

The best economics for electric vehciles were always going to be light and medium vehicles with high utilisation. Not personal cars. Not heavy vehicles sensitive to weight and power.

PS: I am wondering why Tesla is offering nothing in Vans, Minibusses, Busses, and even their pickup is nowhere to be found - instead are spending huge amound of engineering effort to build a heavy truck and associated infra.



They still serve very different purposes. Tesla semi isn't going to be driving down residential streets. Vans are not delivering pallets of chips.

I do think EV Vans will be a huge help for climate change and residential noise levels. Can't wait to not hear UPS/Fedex trucks multiple times a day.


Too bad EV doesn't fix the incessant back-up beeping. Or worse, Amazon's crunchy mechanical back-up noise. Not sure which I loathe more... beep beep beep or aaahnnn aaahnnn aaahnnn


You should visit the UK. The trucks audibly announce their intentions.

“STAND CLEAR. THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT. STAND CLEAR. THIS VEHICLE IS TURNING LEFT”.


On the plus side, that probably means those drivers are using their turn signals. It's a bit of a free-for-all here in the states.


It'll be worse. Present law requires EVs to also make artificial irritating noise in either direction.


I'd rather hear beeping than have more people end up flat.


I’m hoping for something far smaller than a car. A couple shopping bags or three pizzas in a very fast tiny delivery vehicle.


Renault Twizy


Apologies I didn’t fill it out enough. No passengers - ads weight and cost. Automated system that gets your shopping or pizza to you as quickly as possible with least energy expended.

This but on steroids, like a tron light cycle: https://www.wired.com/2017/03/delivery-robot-isnt-just-charm...


I deally we'd have something like freight rail to larger cities and then smaller delivery vehicles from there.

> Not personal cars.

I agree. EVs (I own one they're cool) are additive solutions (more is better) and we need subtractive solutions to solve many social and economic problems (i.e. reduction in vehicle-based economic activity by using sidewalks). Probably more participatory economic activity too anyway. It's a lot easier to start a cafe than start a car company.


During the investor day March 1st there was what seems to be a van shape covered by a white blanket on one of the slides. There is an image here: https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-van-teased-investor-day/

I'm pretty sure the next two vehicles are a small affordable hatchback and a van. I least I hope so! I have a Nissan Passenger NV 12-seater van for our family of 9 and it's not fun paying $150/tank to fill up : S


Era of electric mini-vans are coming! Love it!


Absolutely. I'm not convinced Rivian actually makes it out alive...But I fully expect that at the last dying breaths someone will step in and buy the whole damn thing. Likely Ford. Maybe Apple. Possibly someone in the EV space already but not in trucks/vans like Geely. Rebrand the vans as Volvo Trucks products. If it wasn't for Scout, VW would be a great fit.


This is a pretty absurd comparison. A delivery truck vs a Semi, totally different markets.

> The best economics for electric vehciles were always going to be light and medium vehicles with high utilisation.

A point-to-point delivery company can use the Semi at high utilization.

> Not heavy vehicles sensitive to weight and power.

Semi addresses a huge part of the overall trucking market.


The big issue with utilization on large electric semis is recharge times, current designs of 300-500 mile range will need at least one recharge during the day and that will eat into the driving hours allowed by law for truckers.


It its a shorter distance with more frequent loading and unloading this might be less of a problem. Or if drivers switch between shifts.


Is anyone actually offering or proposing a semi with a 300-500 mile range?


That's Tesla's claimed range but I'll believe it when I see it. That project hasn't surfaced much since it's initial announcement as far as I'm aware.


Actually they have delivered some vehicles and they are in production. It isn't full speed production but its in production.

500 miles is tough and you need the right conditions, see:

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/12/11/watch-tesla-semis-500-m...

300 miles is no issue.


I think Tesla is suffering from a lack of management employees/skill to be able to release products faster.

As soon as they had the model 3 out of the door, they should have started the development in parallel of a few goods vehicles, a pick up truck, an offroad vehicle, and a few micro cars too.

They should have sped through the design stages, used common and off the shelf parts, and got them to market in 2 years.

Then, any model that sells well you redesign 'tesla style' (ie. vertically integrated, nearly every part heavily optimized for cost & performance), and re-release.


Not a huge Tesla fan, but they did release the Model Y. Then the pandemic hit. I cancelled my Cybertruck order last year when it was clear it wasn't going to show up till 2024 or later and pricing was likely going to go up.


Heavy trucks are extremely sensitive to fuel costs. They commonly burn more than $300 in diesel in one shift. Add semi chargers at some truck stops on major highways and every truck route that traverses those highways can switch to electric. In-town routes install a charger at the company's own site. The infrastructure isn't a problem.

Personal cars can be charged at home. The main impediment was getting the up-front cost competitive with ICE cars, but the base Model 3 costs less than the average new car.

Tesla sells every vehicle they can produce. So does Rivian. Because electric vehicles are going to replace ICE ones.


How much does $300 of diesel weigh compared to the equivalent electric range capacity with current battery tech?

The energy density of diesel is important to the economics of long-haul trucking. If you replace half of your cargo weight with your own batteries, it doesn't work with the status quo.


Engineering Explained did an episode especially on the topic [1], it seems a huge amount of routes could indeed be replaced by an electrical semi.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvg_i0GE0Vo


Currently weight matters because there are laws on the maximum weight of certain kinds of trucks.

However, I believe that with a good lobbying team, those laws could be changed if an EV truck maker could demonstrate they can do less damage to the road with a heavier truck, for example with better traction control and more drive wheels. Or maybe just wider wheels and lower or even variable tyre pressures.


Most trucks aren't at their weight limit. There will be electric trucks that can carry moderate loads for long distances and others (with smaller batteries) that can carry heavy loads for shorter distances. For heavy loads and long distances, you could use the latter and charge it more often, but you should just put it on a train.


Musk gave a presentation on Tesla Semis and competing with Rail. And if you take like 5 semis and put them butt to butt (to reduce drag), autonomously, you can beat the cost of Rail. And you essentially just took Rail and expanded the reach of it with all the highways in the US. So that is the grand plan, to go after Rail.


Presumably the congestion added by a bunch of 250' long trailer centipedes on the road would drive commuter traffic into Musk's surely-by-then existent hyperloop?




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