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It would take at least 20 years for you to break even on the cost of a graphics card. Expect to see a lot of used cards on eBay.


That's assuming the cost of electricity doesn't go up and the value of POW coins doesn't go down.


A lot of heavily used cards, which were run at 100% load 24/7 for who knows how long. What a deal.


Most "professional" miners were actually undervolting to keep the power consumption down so it's really not that bad as long as the price is right.

Anecdata but, 3 years ago I got an old mining RX 580 4GB for ~120 CAD (about a $100). That card can run almost everything at 1080p and has been used a lot ever since.


I've got over 100,000 of those RX470,480,570,580 8gb cards running for 24/7 years. It is a total farce that they go bad over time.

Not only were ours undervolted, but also individually tuned for best performance/watt. A very difficult thing to do at my scale since the failure mode is a full machine crash.

Only thing that really degrades is the paste on the heatsink and that's fairly easy to fix.


I know there is a lot of negativity around mining nowadays, but I'd love to hear more about the challenges of running a large-scale operation.


The largest challenge was tuning the cards for best efficiency.

Next up is just tracking inventory, making changes to the system, etc... this is over 8k individual computers in multiple data centers.

We also added a different class of hardware which was blade based... which increased the individual computers significantly. Ended up with a very cool iPXE boot solution for that.

I also built some pretty cool software to manage it all. It runs on the concept that each machine is an individual worker that knows how to self-heal itself. Even just distributing the software to so many machines reliably, is a challenge.

It has been a fun few years.


Also the fan bearings, but again an easy fix.


We don't have fans on the cards.


I would posit the operations that will be selling their used cards to consumers have fans on the cards.


Sounds like you run a large operation. Would you be comfortable sharing what country you're in?


It's more temperature variation that kills cards. In a conventional mining setup thermals are monitored and accounted for. A card running at 70C 24/7 will last a long time. Longer than a card that is constantly bouncing around in temperature.


Also untrue. My cards have been running for years in shipping containers that are outdoors and go through full 4 seasons (winter snows to summer heats).

Edit: power supplies on the other hand... are a mess. Mostly hand soldered in China... they fail randomly due to the environment they run in. Sometimes, they "die", let rest for a day or two and then fire back up and run just fine.


Temperature changes outside don't translate to temperature changes on the die. If the cards are running 24/7 there will be no thermal shock to speak of since they are always generating heat.


Various machines reboot randomly all the time. Given the amount of direct outdoor airflow that we push through the machines (we don't have fans on the GPUs), as soon as the GPUs stop running, they cool down very very quickly. That is the 'shock' you're looking for.

Why do they reboot? We run on the edge of peak OC tuning performance by default and I've built an automated tuner which downclocks individual cards. This way, they get more stable over time, while maintaining their best possible performance.

Occasionally, we would reset the tunings and then let them auto tune back... this accounted for the seasonal variances because hotter cards are more prone to crashing.


How often does the average machine reboot? If it's less often than 24 hours you're still putting the card under less thermal stress than someone who games for a half hour every evening. I'd buy your used GPU over a gamer's used GPU


Sometimes it can reboot 50+ times in a row. Each box has 12 gpus, so if I reset the tuning for the box, it can take a while to find the optimal settings because the voltage/clock tuning steps are very granular.

Again, this isn't an actual issue and I have the data to prove it.


Fair enough, I'll defer to your experience. Although if you're power cycling that much, I take it back, maybe I won't buy your cards :)


No, you want my cards because I've proven that reboots/thermal changes don't make any difference. =)

You wouldn't want my cards, because they don't have fans. Most people don't have adequate cooling for something like that.


> That is the 'shock' you're looking for.

It may still be a lot less 'shock' than normal use, where players have a 15 minute round, then low use for a couple minutes, etc, for hours.. and then turn the card off.

Thermal cycling is known to be bad for electronics-- this is well studied and documented. Sustained high temperatures are also bad, but it's only really bad when the temperatures are really high.


I'm pretty sure my cards have gone through all extreme different load situations that you could possibly make up in your head.

Certainly, thermal cycling can be an issue for electronics in general, but my experience with these specific cards says that it isn't an issue at all. At least certainly not as much as something that should dictate purchasing 'miner' cards or not.


Since you would know about every possible failure mode…

Do you know what causes NVIDIA cards to have their output turn off (black screen) and the fan to go 100%?

Been happening to my 2000-series recently but I don’t know what to try to fix: cooling, PSU, or capacitors…


My primary experience is with AMD cards.

My guess is a vbios or driver bug. You could also be running into a tuning issue. GPUs are amazingly complex beasts.


Miners overclock and overvolt the memory because there's a substantial performance advantage to doing so with little efficiency loss. This rapidly ages the memory.

Also, 70c is well into the temperature range that will significantly age capacitors.


I would hope performance GPUs are using 105C caps. At a 30% derating they should last almost 10x as long as at 105C.


High end cards, maybe.

My point stands: a capacitor that spends most of its life at room temperature except for a few hours at ~60c is going to last significantly longer than a mining card which spends 24x7 at 60-70c, regardless of temperature rating.


Untrue, forcing more usage on a card while mining will immensely increase power usage whilst hardly improving hashrate. Mining GPUs are undervolted and arguably will be in better condition than a hardcore gamer's card.


I'd be mostly worried about the fans. IIRC the thing that really kills microchips is heat-cycles, so a continuous load seems pretty good.


Is this actually a problem, besides needing to replace a cheap fan? If the fans go out, they just maintain thermal limit. These aren't like old cards, where they would melt.


Replacing a GPU fan is generally a lot more involved than other PC fans. Some you have to take the GPU apart (sometimes involving glue) and some fans are harder to get than others. I'd say it's harder than building the PC itself, but still fairly easy.


Don't run your hospital on them. Probably fine for gaming or a little render farm.


I just got a nice GPU upgrade off eBay, and it looked like it came from a farm/cluster.




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